COLUMBUS AVENUE AND THE UPPER WEST SIDE
ORAL HISTORY PROJECT

Interview with Joseph Velardi

Columbus Avenue Business Improvement District
2019

Velardi – Session 1 of 1

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PREFACE

The following is a transcript of an oral history interview with Joseph Velardi conducted by Leyla
Vural on May 15, 2019. This interview is part of the Columbus Avenue and the Upper West Side
Oral History Project. The Columbus Avenue Business Improvement District has sponsored this
project.
Joseph Velardi (born in 1933) has lived on Columbus Avenue since 1958.
In this interview, Joseph Velardi tells the story of growing up on the East Side and moving in
1958 with his parents to the large, rent-controlled apartment where he still lives. Velardi, who
was a social worker for the City of New York, describes the Upper West Side and Columbus
Avenue as he has experienced them over the years.
The interviewee has reviewed, edited, and approved this transcript. Readers should bear in mind
that this is a verbatim transcript of an interview and, therefore, does not read like a polished
piece of written work. Time codes have been included to make it easier for readers to match the
transcript with the audio recording of the interview. Time codes may, however, no longer be
completely accurate because of edits to the transcript. Where there are differences between the
transcript and the audio recording, the transcript is the final document of record.
The views expressed in this oral history interview are the interviewee’s alone and do not
necessarily reflect those of the Columbus Avenue Business Improvement District.

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Interviewee: Joseph Velardi
Interviewer: Leyla Vural
Interview date: May 15, 2019
Session: 1 of 1
Location: New York, N.Y.

Vural: [00:00:03] Okay, it is Wednesday, May 15th, 2019. I’m in the apartment of Joseph
Velardi on [West] Seventy-fifth Street to conduct an interview for the Columbus Avenue and
Upper West Side Oral History Project. Thank you, Mr. Velardi.
Velardi: [00:00:19] A pleasure.
Vural: [00:00:20] I’m delighted that we’re doing this together. So, oral histories usually start at
the beginning of a person’s life. So, can you tell me where and when you were born and
something about how you grew up?
Velardi: [00:00:31] Yes. I was born in Port Chester, New York, where my maternal
grandmother lived. We were living on the East Side of New York City at that time, and I arrived
unexpectedly in my grandmother’s home. There was a neighbor doctor, Dr. Kelly by name, who
presided over my birth, but I did not find out until many years later that there was no record of
my birth in any official office. There was no record of my birth in Albany or anywhere in
Westchester County. I found that out when I went to register for the draft. They would not accept
the baptismal certificate that I had been using for the past eighteen years to get into school—
grammar school, high school, etcetera, etcetera. So [chuckles], it was quite a surprise. If I had not
gone to register for the birth—for the draft, I’m sorry [chuckles]—I would never have been
contacted because there was no record of my existence. Have you ever heard of anything like
that before?

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Vural: [00:01:45] No.
Velardi: [00:01:47] [Chuckles] Oh, well—
Vural: [00:01:48] Not in New York certainly.
Velardi: [00:01:50] So, I filled the necessary forms. And the first record of me appears in the
1940 census. That, I’m there. And for that census, we were living in Los Angeles at the time.
That’s basically it.
Vural: [00:02:13] And when were you born?
Velardi: [00:02:14] June 4th, 1933.
Vural: [00:02:19] And can you tell me a little bit about your family?
Velardi: [00:02:23] My father and mother both were Italian. My mother came from Calabria, my
father from Sicily. They married in 1926 or so, I believe. They were both dressmakers. And, as I
said before, most of the early years of my life were on the East Side, East Fifty-second Street—
140 East Fifty-second, Lexington Avenue, the building is still there—and on Forty-ninth Street.
But the last time I lived on the East Side was in a building owned both by my father and my
uncle: 311 East Fifty-first Street. Regrettably, my uncle died prematurely at the age of fifty-eight
and his widow wished to return to Italy. My father didn’t think he could hold onto the building,
so we sold it and came here.
[00:03:28] I discovered this apartment at a time when newspapers used to carry information
about apartments for rent. They don’t of course anymore. That’s a feature a long time gone.

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[00:03:42] So, this is the apartment. It’s a seven-room apartment. This was drug paradise at the
time. Can you guess what the rent was for this apartment?
Vural: [00:03:54] So, we’re talking 1958—
Velardi: [00:03:57] Correct.
Vural: [00:03:58] —you said.
Velardi: [00:03:59] Yes.
Vural: [00:04:00] For a seven-room apartment in 1958.
Velardi: [00:04:03] In a building—you want to know a little bit about the building? It went up
between 1890 and ’92. It is the second-oldest residential building in this immediate
neighborhood. The only older building is the Dakota, 1883. And, yes, I have photographs taken
from the roof of the Dakota and it shows absolutely nothing in this immediate area. There are no
buildings whatsoever except one, the original building of the Museum of National History.
[00:04:39] So, the decision was made to sell that brownstone. A big mistake. The last time I
checked, it had been sold a few years ago for $12 million. We purchased it for $33,000. It was
sold for $45,000. And, well, it was a big mistake, but nobody knew at the time that the property
values would skyrocket [chuckles], right?
Vural: [00:05:11] So, you moved here in 1958 with your parents?
Velardi: [00:05:14] I moved in with my parents but then I went to live in Boston. I was in
Boston—do you know anything about Boston?
Vural: [00:05:22] Not much.

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Velardi: [00:05:24] No? I went to an area called Back Bay. I chose the location. I had a
girlfriend at the time, Virginia, and we chose to be near the Boston Public Library [chuckles],
which is in a section called Back Bay, and I was there until she died of cancer, and that’s when I
returned home.
[00:05:53] So, I’ve been here basically since then. I thought I was going to get married in the
early 1970s but that didn’t work out. I took another shot at marriage in the late 1980s and that
didn’t work out either. However, I’ve remained close friends with Rosalie by name. We meet
every Friday for dinner and a movie, and there are other occasions, of course.
Vural: [00:06:23] Lovely.
Velardi: [00:06:26] So, if your question is how well do I know this apartment, [chuckles] I know
it extremely well.
Vural: [00:06:32] So, tell me a little bit more about how you grew up. Were your parents
members of one of the garment unions?
Velardi: [00:06:37] Yes. Yes, they were. I’ve forgotten the exact name of it.
Vural: [00:06:44] The International Ladies’ Garment Workers’ Union [ILGWU] perhaps?
Velardi: [00:06:45] Something like that. Yes, exactly.
Vural: [00:06:48] So, my dissertation was about the ILGWU and my first job was with them.
Velardi: [00:06:53] Really?
Vural: [00:06:54] Yes.

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Velardi: [00:06:55] Oh, what a coincidence. Yes.
Vural: [00:06:57] Yes.
Velardi: [00:06:57] Oh, yes.
Vural: [00:06:58] Well, New York work was full—particularly Italian immigrants and Jewish
immigrants were in the garment industry at that time.
Velardi: [00:07:04] My father made the decision to leave New York for Los Angeles because he
wanted to be near Hollywood. He thought he might be able to make a connection as a
dressmaker with the productions in Hollywood. All depended, though, on who you knew and he
did not know very many people there. So, they worked as dressmakers and never got beyond
that. We were there for five years.
Vural: [00:07:35] What years was that?
Velardi: [00:07:36] 1938 to 1942. I’m off a little bit. We came back in June of ’42. No, we may
have left ’37, and we returned to the East Side, where I grew up. We were living in 986 Second
Avenue.
Vural: [00:07:59] And did you have siblings or were you an only child?
Velardi: [00:08:02] No, no, no. No. Got to know Los Angeles very well in five years. I can still
remember our address—2709 West Pico [Boulevard]. It’s one of the few things I remember
[chuckles] going back that far. I remember Bullock’s. Have you ever been to Los Angeles?
Vural: [00:08:25] I have. I don’t know it well, though.

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Velardi: [00:08:26] No? Bullock’s department store I remember. About two blocks away from
our home was Loyola [Marymount] University. Griffith Park was also nearby. And that’s about
it.
Vural: [00:08:38] And what were you like as a child? How do you remember yourself?
Velardi: [00:08:42] An ordinary childhood. Catholic school. Catholic high school. I tried to end
the Catholic education with high school but they refused to send my transcripts to Princeton
[University]. I was eighth in my class. We were about 225. And I had the grades but they would
not send the transcript to any but a Catholic college. So, I had my choice of Fordham
[University], Georgetown [University], [College of the] Holy Cross, and I’ve forgotten some of
the others. I ended up going to Fordham. So, I was there in the Bronx. You’ve been there, right?
Vural: [00:09:29] Of course.
Velardi: [00:09:30] You’ve been there, near the Bronx Zoo, etcetera, etcetera.
[00:09:35] For graduate school, I was able to get into Columbia [University]. And I majored in
philosophy in college. I wanted to continue in philosophy in Columbia. They did not teach,
however, symbolic logic. Have you ever heard of symbolic logic?
Vural: [00:09:57] No, tell me about it.
Velardi: [00:09:58] No? It is concentrated on dealing with mathematics. One great symbolic
logician was Albert Einstein [chuckles]. Another was Bertrand Russell. So, I decided I would go
to NYU [New York University] graduate school, where I took the symbolic logic.
[00:10:20] Well, that was basically it. The school—I also went to New School [the New School
for Social Research]. They had courses there that interested me, so I tried to make up for all that

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I did not get at Fordham University, which was a disappointment. But I don’t know if I should
have gotten—should I have gotten a lawyer at that time and sued the high school for not sending
my transcripts to Princeton? I visited there, I spoke to a student counselor there, and he said to
me, “By all means get your transcripts over here.” They wouldn’t send them.
Vural: [00:10:56] What high school were you at?
Velardi: [00:10:58] Xavier [High School], 30 West Sixteenth Street. You know it? Between
Fifth and Sixth Avenues.
Vural: [00:11:02] Ah-hum.
Velardi: [00:11:02] There’s a church there too, of course.
Vural: [00:11:05] Yes.
Velardi: [00:11:06] And there was an ROTC [Reserve Officer Training Corps] Army
component there. We had to wear a uniform every day. On Fridays we wore a dress blue
uniform. The Army component consisted, I think, of about ten Army individuals, one or two
officers. The rest were enlisted men, sergeants, etcetera. And we were given information about
Army activity. And we received military training. I qualified for the rifle squad and once won a
bronze medal for marksmanship.
[00:11:41] It was considered one of the better high schools in New York City. The only one that
I know of that was superior was a place called Regis [High School]—have you ever heard of
it?—
Vural: [00:11:49] Ah-hum.

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Velardi: [00:11:50] —in the East Eighties somewhere, but I preferred to go to Xavier, which
was easier to get to.
Vural: [00:12:02] And were your parents’ expectations that you would continue with education?
Velardi: [00:12:08] Oh, yes, yes, by all means. Yes, ah-hum, ah-hum. So—
Vural: [00:12:18] So, did you end up getting a graduate degree then in philosophy?
Velardi: [00:12:22] No, I did not get that degree. I turned to social work. So, I got an MSW
[Master of Social Work] and I spent my years as a social worker. My last position was director
of special schools.
Vural: [00:12:46] So, we’re looking at your business cards now.
Velardi: [00:12:48] You’re looking at one business card [chuckles].
Vural: [00:12:53] Okay, so is this from the City of New York.
Velardi: [00:12:55] Right.
Vural: [00:12:57] Joseph J. Velardi, Director of Special Schools. So, were you part of what was
then the Department of Education?
Velardi: [00:13:08] No, it was [Department of] Social Services, NYC.
Vural: [00:13:13] Great. So, what did—can you tell me a little about when—what were the
years that you were doing this work and what did it entail to be the director of special schools?
Velardi: [00:13:21] Well, originally, I was a social worker. I visited clients throughout the city
and, well, that was basically it. Then with this job, the object was to find appropriate placements

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for disabled individuals. Most of the individuals were hospitalized for a while and an appropriate
facility had to be identified for them. Once a month I used to have to go to the World Trade
Center No. 1, fifty-sixth floor, to participate in what was called the “Hard to Place Committee.”
We sat at a big round table, about ten of us. There was a representative from each agency there,
two people came down from Albany, and we discussed cases and where to place individuals.
[00:14:20] New York City, believe it or not, and New York State did not have sufficient
placement possibilities, so many placements were made in Pennsylvania, sometimes as far south
as Florida. In the north, the behavioral institute was in—not Massachusetts, it was either in
Maine or one of the other states there: $75,000 a year. And we once placed the child as far west
as Iowa. That’s how difficult it was to find appropriate placements.
Vural: [00:14:59] So, these were schools for kids with disabilities.
Velardi: [00:15:03] Kids up to—anybody up to age twenty-one. Oh, yes, ah-hum.
Vural: [00:15:07] And what years were you going to the World Trade Center?
Velardi: [00:15:12] Up to two years before 9/11.
Vural: [00:15:17] Okay.
Velardi: [00:15:18] Yes.
Vural: [00:15:21] So, back to the neighborhood. You went to Boston. What year did you come
back to New York?
Velardi: [00:15:25] I came back in 1960—wait a minute—1962. Yes, I think. Yes [chuckles].
Vural: [00:15:39] So, you lost your girlfriend young then.

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Velardi: [00:15:41] I’m sorry?
Vural: [00:15:41] Your girlfriend. You said she died of cancer. She was young.
Velardi: [00:15:44] Yes, yes, yes.
Vural: [00:15:46] I’m sorry about that.
Velardi: [00:15:49] Well, yes. From what I’ve heard, you know, sickle cell anemia can take you
at age 33, and there were several Hollywood actresses I think who died very young because of
something related to cancer or sickle cell, right? I think, yes.
Vural: [00:16:10] Is that what she had?
Velardi: [00:16:11] Yes, ah-hum.
Vural: [00:16:14] So, were you also in the military?
Velardi: [00:16:17] No.
Vural: [00:16:18] No. Okay. So, you—
Velardi: [00:16:19] No, I had to wear a uniform—
Vural: [00:16:21] Okay.
Velardi: [00:16:22] —in high school, but that was the extent of it.
Vural: [00:16:24] Okay.
Velardi: [00:16:25] In college I did start out with the ROTC, as it was called, Reserve Officers
Training Corps, but I left after two years, though. No—

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Vural: [00:16:35] Okay.
Velardi: [00:16:36] —I didn’t see any point in continuing it.
Vural: [00:16:37] Yes, because you said about that’s when you realized that you didn’t have a
proper birth certificate.
Velardi: [00:16:46] No, the problem with the birth certificate came when I had to register for the
draft at age 18.
Vural: [00:16:56] Right.
Velardi: [00:16:57] Right. Alright, so that’s more or less—
Vural: [00:16:58] But you didn’t end up in—
Velardi: [00:16:59] Yes.
Vural: [00:17:01] Right, but you didn’t end up in it.
Velardi: [00:17:02] Yes, yes, ah-hum.
Vural: [00:17:02] Okay. So, when you came back in ’62, did you move into this apartment?
Velardi: [00:17:06] Oh, yes, when I came back, yes.
Vural: [00:17:07] Okay. And what was—
Velardi: [00:17:08] It was large enough [chuckles] to accommodate us, yes.
Vural: [00:17:12] Sure. What was the rent in 1958?
Velardi: [00:17:14] Oh, you never guessed at that, did you?

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Vural: [00:17:16] I didn’t. What would I guess? From what other people have told me, I would
guess that it was $100 a month?
Velardi: [00:17:24] Very, very good. $99. And no security deposit was requested. There was
another apartment, a six-room apartment, available, also. I think that rent was $85 a month.
There are only four original apartments left in this building now: two sevens, two sixes. All the
others have been cut up into one-bedroom apartments and studio apartments. Four six-room
apartments were left intact. They were renovated but not split up. And they are the only
apartments in the building that have two bathrooms. Believe it or not, this apartment was created
with one full bathroom and two toilets. One toilet was in there where my study is. It had a sink
and a toilet. And then in the back toward the kitchen there was what was called the maid’s room
and opposite the maid’s room is a toilet but no sink. What they had in mind when they built this
building neither I nor anybody else has ever been able to figure out. It is strange, very strange.
Vural: [00:19:03] So, tell me, what do you remember of the neighborhood when you moved in
in 1958? Can you paint a picture? What was on Columbus Avenue? Who was living here? What
were the stores like?
Velardi: [00:19:16] The most salient figure—I could get off the subway on Seventy-second
Street and then walk to this location and not see any bars on any of the windows. When I looked
at the stores there were none of these sliding gates that they now have. You saw the glass front of
the store and the glass door. There were many restaurants at the time. There was a beautiful
restaurant here on the corner of Seventy-fourth where there is now an HSBC bank, a restaurant
with a working fireplace.
Vural: [00:20:05] What was it called?

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Velardi: [00:20:06] I have a fireplace in my dining room but it doesn’t work. And there used to
be one there. You can see the remnants of it.
Vural: [00:20:13] Yes.
Velardi: [00:20:13] Can you see it on—
Vural: [00:20:14] Yes, yes.
Velardi: [00:20:15] That’s the shelf, the top of the fireplace.
Vural: [00:20:17] On the mantle, yes. What was that restaurant called? Do you recall?
Velardi: [00:20:22] Maybe Café Europa. Maybe. I won’t swear to that. There were many more
restaurants then than there are now, I’ll tell you that much.
Vural: [00:20:37] Were there stores?
Velardi: [00:20:38] I’m sorry?
Vural: [00:20:39] Were there stores?
Velardi: [00:20:39] Oh, stores. Yes, there were stores. There weren’t as many banks, though.
The proliferation of the bank is a recent phenomenon, isn’t it? “Recent” meaning in the last
twenty years [chuckles].
Vural: [00:20:52] Yes, yes. So, what kinds of stores do you recall on Columbus in the late
Fifties?
Velardi: [00:20:59] Well, the first thing that comes to mind, believe it or not, is there was a
proliferation of grocery stores. For example, in this block, in the middle of the block, there was

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an Associated. Do you remember that chain, Associated? [And also in this building, below me
was the King Cole Supermarket.]
Vural: [00:21:16] Yes.
Velardi: [00:21:17] Right? And then two or three blocks south there was another supermarket of
sorts, the name of which I’ve forgotten, and, well, until a few years ago, there was another
supermarket on 68th and Broadway, across from the Lincoln Square Theater. There were many
more supermarkets, there’s no question about it. This one was called the Associated, right. I’ve
forgotten the names of the—A&P was around, too, also. Yes. Alright, no, other stores—nothing
significant comes to mind to tell you the truth.
Vural: [00:22:09] And what was the feel of the neighborhood?
Velardi: [00:22:12] Well, as I said before, this was drug paradise.
Vural: [00:22:21] Even in the late Fifties?
Velardi: [00:22:22] I think it started in the late fifties, yes. Yes. From Columbus Circle all the
way up to 110, or maybe beyond that. And on Broadway you could see drug addicts, drugdealers, many, many prostitutes. Did you ever see a film entitled Panic in Needle Park—
Vural: [00:22:50] Yes.
Velardi: [00:22:51] —1970, with Al Pacino?
Vural: [00:22:53] Yes.
Velardi: [00:22:54] Needle Park [chuckles] was there, in front of where the Apple Bank is
today. And there were other smaller parks where the drug addicts used to gather, there’s no

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question about it. And then a few years later, as I mentioned to you before, as I was walking
from Seventy-second and Broadway to here, the bars on the windows began to all appear, and
the gates on the stores, etcetera. And that continued, I think, through the seventies and the early
eighties.
Vural: [00:23:33] So, before you tell me about the eighties, let’s stick with when you first got to
the neighborhood. What did your parents think when you moved here with them? Were they glad
to get to the Upper West Side? Were they hesitant about it? What was their sense of it?
Velardi: [00:23:49] What attracted us most is that cheap rent for such a huge apartment. Now,
the East Side, East Fifty-first, as I mentioned before, we did have a six-room apartment in a
brownstone as they were called, a row house. So, the rooms were not as large as this, but oddly
enough, we did have a bathroom and a full toilet [chuckles], a toilet with a sink. No elevator,
though. They were all five-story buildings.
[00:24:30] So, what attracted me to this is that advertisement that I saw—I’ve forgotten which
paper—for an apartment that cheap here. It was incredible. But there were signs everywhere of
apartments for rent. You would walk a block from Amsterdam [Avenue] to here and you’d pass
at least a dozen signs of apartments for rent, and I think the proliferation of drugs was
responsible for that.
Vural: [00:25:02] That’s really interesting. There’s always a mix in a neighborhood, right. So,
there would be drug-dealers and addicts but also families like yourselves. So, who else do you
recall from the neighborhood in those early days, like sort of the mix of people who were living
and in the area? Who were your neighbors? Do you recall?

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Velardi: [00:25:28] Yes, I remember some of the neighbors. There was a mixture of individuals.
On the second floor, for example, we had a doctor and his wife and child. They moved out about
five years ago. Other significant neighbors—nothing comes readily to mind.
Vural: [00:26:01] Do you remember if it felt like a mix of kind of working-class people and—
Velardi: [00:26:05] Oh, yes, yes. Yes, it would be that, you know, of course, ah-hum.
Vural: [00:26:10] And do you remember kind of what the racial and ethnic mix was?
Velardi: [00:26:15] Mostly white people. There were Hispanics on the fifth floor. I don’t
remember any Italian people, to tell you the truth, that we connected with, except the doctor. Just
the doctor, Mateus Verna by name. He had half-Italian ancestry. Yes. Otherwise no, nothing in
particular.
Vural: [00:26:54] And did you socialize with people in the neighborhood? Did you have friends
who lived nearby?
Velardi: [00:27:00] I socialized with a flight attendant on the third floor for a while. She now
lives in the state of Washington. She had to return to take care of her mother. But yes, I did
socialize with her. And I also socialized with a couple, David and Karen Cole, who moved in
briefly on the fourth floor.
[00:27:28] This building has not been that successful in retaining tenants for one reason or
another. The steam heat is not what it’s supposed to be in some apartments, including this one. It
may come up splendidly in the rear but there may be little here in the front. Therefore, if you turn
to your right there you can see the top of a thousand-watt heater [chuckles]. So, people move in
and move out. The most egregious example of people moving in and moving out within six

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months occurred about a dozen years ago. Blandy—does that name mean anything to you? Have
you—
Vural: [00:28:12] No.
Velardi: [00:28:12] Blandy? No? Eleanor Blandy and her husband moved in. They signed a
two-year lease and they left after six months. Eleanor belonged to a 200-year-old, maybe even
older, wine-producing and liqueur-producing family. Blandy Madeira is I think still around in
some liquor stores.
[00:28:36] To get to the point, they gave three reasons for leaving. One, they were kept awake by
the banging of the heat pipes when the heat came up. That’s been solved. The furnace used to be
in this building, now it’s in the building next door. Mr. [Walter] Czolacz arranged for that, and it
may have solved the problem about noise, but it didn’t completely solve the problem about
getting all the heat where it was supposed to come.
[00:29:04] The second reason they gave—they were in a duplex apartment on the sixth floor—
they were kept awake by the elevator of the building next door whenever it came up to the top
floor. And the third reason they gave for leaving—are you sitting down now?—they were kept
awake by the snoring of a neighbor. That’s how thin some of the walls are in this building. More
than one couple has moved out citing the paper-thin walls that exist in some of those renovated
apartments.
Vural: [00:29:42] Not the original nineteenth century—
Velardi: [00:29:43] Huh?
Vural: [00:29:43] Not the original nineteenth-century construction.

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Velardi: [00:29:48] No. That’s an ongoing complaint. I think over the past twenty years at least
a dozen people have moved out. A dozen tenants have left this building citing noise as the
problem, either from above, below, or alongside of one another. I myself sued the two stores
beneath me thirty-five years ago because of all the noise that was coming up. Especially one
store, the staff would stay there until 1:30 in the morning and blast their stereo. I called the
police, they didn’t come. So, I went to the New York Bar Association, I told them my problem.
They gave me a list of three, four lawyers who specialized in housing problems. I chose one of
them, A.J. Goldberg, Madison Avenue and Fortieth Street, and I initiated suits against both the
stores.
[00:30:48] One of them, which was where the liquor store is now, left after two months. It was
called Think Big. It was a store where they sold everything one hundred times the size of what it
was. Have you ever heard of anything like that?
Vural: [00:31:06] No.
Velardi: [00:31:07] I mean, if they had a lamp, it would as tall as this room [chuckles], or
something like that. The other store was called Aca Joe. Maybe you’ve heard of them? A
clothing store of sorts. I think they still—
Vural: [00:31:19] I don’t know—
Velardi: [00:31:20] —exist downtown. In any event, they brought in—when they were notified
by my attorney that they were being sued, they brought in their own acoustical expert. I had to
bring mine in at the direction of the lawyer, $400 an hour for two hours. They brought in their
own acoustical expert and that expert found even more holes in their ceiling than they did mine.

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They understood what the problem was. They took their stereo units down from the ceiling in the
store and they put them on the floor and they remained there until they left.
[00:32:08] So [chuckles], I don’t know have you ever had that experience before, very thin walls
and paper-thin walls anywhere? Because that—
Vural: [00:32:16] I’ve only lived in old buildings in New York.
Velardi: [00:32:19] In—?
Vural: [00:32:19] In old buildings.
Velardi: [00:32:21] Old buildings. Like this one?
Vural: [00:32:22] Yes, but unrenovated.
Velardi: [00:32:24] Unrenovated. Yes, that’s perhaps the key to the problem. [I never had a
noise problem beneath me when the King Cole Supermarket was located there.]
Vural: [00:32:28] Yes.
Velardi: [00:32:29] When they renovate, they sometimes create a disaster. They first renovated
in 1990, four apartments; then in 1995, one apartment like this on the sixth floor; and then the
last time was 2007, 2008. They did the four that I mentioned to you, the six bedrooms, but they
didn’t cut them up, they just renovated them.
Vural: [00:32:53] And are you in a rent-controlled apartment?
Velardi: [00:32:55] It’s a rent-controlled apartment. The four of us are still. You know about the
rent control laws ending in June 15th?

22

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Vural: [00:33:02] Yes.
Velardi: [00:33:04] We’re a little bit concerned about that.
Vural: [00:33:06] Yes.
Velardi: [00:33:07] We’re only—there were only 22,000 people left on rent control according to
an article that I read I think sometime last year. It’s not the two million that we started out with
whenever it was, decades ago.
Vural: [00:33:24] So, tell me how you remember the neighborhood changing. So, as you got
here in the late Fifties it was a mix of working people and professionals and sort of trouble on the
street. How did it evolve? What do you remember the sixties being like?
Velardi: [00:33:44] Well, as I said before, the problem in the sixties was the drug paradise.
There’s no question about it. The needle panic in Needle Park. Decades later, a group of working
people coming into the building and were willing to pay much for a studio. The rent for a studio
was $2,000. For a one-bedroom, it was $3,000 or $3,300, something like that. And for the two
bedrooms, I think it was $5,000.
Vural: [00:34:18] Not in the sixties, though. In the 1960s?
Velardi: [00:34:22] You think? Maybe I’m mistaken about the time factor there. No, you’re
right, it was probably later than that that those high rents began. Well, it was certainly after the
first basic renovation, which was 1990.
Vural: [00:34:43] Yes. So, earlier, yes.
Velardi: [00:34:44] Alright. So, yes, so you’re right about that.

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Vural: [00:34:47] So, in the era of drug problems on the street, did you nonetheless feel
comfortable and safe? Or how do you remember yourself kind of navigating the streets?
Velardi: [00:34:59] Basically no problem, although I will say this apartment was broken into
twice. The individual who came in first from the back, the dining room, there were no bars on
the windows at that time. And the second time an individual with a crowbar of some sort came
through the front door. And I was home at the time. I was on sick leave. So, I was in my
bedroom, which is behind here, and I heard the noise. At that time I had a Winchester rifle. So, I
picked up the rifle and I tiptoed right over there. I quietly opened the door to the guest bedroom
and I saw an individual going through one of the dressers. I returned immediately to my
bedroom, I called the police, when they came, he was gone.
[00:36:59] Later on I learned, I’ve forgotten exactly how, that whoever it was started apparently
just beyond Central Park West and worked his way west from rooftop to rooftop. And he left
behind in the hallway here a violin in its case. I wanted to give it to the police. They said no, just
hold onto it, put a sign somewhere that you have it. I put a note in the store downstairs on the
corner, which used to be a newspaper store, etcetera. Nobody ever claimed it. [I turned it in to
the police precinct.]
[00:36:36] But those were the two major events, the break-ins, and after that the decision was for
bars everywhere. Every window had bars except the ones that were overlooking the Avenue. But
in the back where there’s the rooftop of the store beneath me and it’s extremely accessible from
the alleyway, bars were installed in all the windows in the kitchen and in the dining room.
Vural: [00:37:07] Do you remember what decade those break-ins were in?

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Velardi: [00:37:12] It may have been the eighties. Yes, when I was on sick leave, it must have
been the eighties. But I won’t swear to anything, though [chuckles].
Vural: [00:37:26] That’s okay. That’s fine. So, it felt like it was a mix of both a little bit
threatening and also a little bit fine?
Velardi: [00:37:35] Yes.
Vural: [00:37:36] Everyday life going on anyway?
Velardi: [00:37:37] Yes, yes, yes, yes.
Vural: [00:37:39] Did you ever think about leaving the neighborhood?
Velardi: [00:37:43] I thought about it many times [chuckles], but I never—I wish I could go
back to 311 East Fifty-first Street and recover that brownstone that we had with the garden. I
don’t know, I just have—many of my childhood memories are there.
Vural: [00:38:07] Yes.
Velardi: [00:38:08] So, if I did have to move—if I win—if I won the Mega [Millions lottery]
last night I will move back to the East Side. But maybe I won’t move to Second and First
Avenue, I’ll [chuckles] try Lexington and Madison and Park perhaps—perhaps [chuckles]. So,
I’ll have to check my numbers later for the Mega jackpot [chuckles].
Vural: [00:38:31] [Chuckles] So, I know that you’re also something of a historian. We talked on
the phone when we were arranging that I’d come today.
Velardi: [00:38:36] Yes.

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Vural: [00:38:38] You bought photos of the neighborhood from the—there was a photo dealer at
the flea market. Can you tell me about your interest in history and the neighborhood? Where
does that interest come from, do you think?
Velardi: [00:38:56] I have nothing in particular to cite. It’s just a general interest.
Vural: [00:39:04] So, you’re showing me a photo of Broadway and Forty-second Street from
about 1873 and 106th and Broadway looking north from 1900. I live at 107th and Broadway.
Velardi: [00:39:18] You do?
Vural: [00:39:18] Yes.
Velardi: [00:39:22] So, what do you recognize there?
Vural: [00:39:23] Nothing.
Velardi: [00:39:24] Nothing? [Laughs]
Vural: [00:39:25] [Laughs] That’s really interesting. This is fabulous. So, I live here at the—
Velardi: [00:39:35] Do you? Oh.
Vural: [00:39:36] My building was built in 1929, though.
Velardi: [00:39:43] Ah-hum, ah-hum.
Vural: [00:39:43] So, almost thirty years after this. So, and—
Velardi: [00:39:45] Would you like this?
Vural: [00:39:47] Oh—

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Velardi: [00:39:48] I have something that I wanted to present to you.
Vural: [00:39:50] Oh, that’s so lovely. You don’t need to give me a present, though. Thank you.
Velardi: [00:39:53] Here.
Vural: [00:39:54] Wow.
Velardi: [00:39:55] But why don’t you take that instead of this?
Vural: [00:39:58] Wow. Oh, is this the Dakota?
Velardi: [00:40:04] No—
Vural: [00:40:05] No, this is—
Velardi: [00:40:05] —no, no.
Vural: [00:40:06] Oh, “The Museum of Natural History, 1919, from the elevated train tracks on
Columbus Avenue looking west along Seventy-seventh Street.” [reading from the caption on the
photo]
Velardi: [00:40:16] It should give a date there. Isn’t it something, 1900 and something?
Vural: [00:40:18] It says 1919.
Velardi: [00:40:20] 1919. Okay.
Vural: [00:40:22] Wow.
Velardi: [00:40:22] That’s the Museum of Natural History.
Vural: [00:40:23] Of course, of course.

27

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Velardi: [00:40:24] But I’ll show you a picture later on, which is in the hallway here, of just the
first building of the museum, which is I believe that building—I think it’s that—I’m not sure
[indicating a building in the photo]. There’s only one building in the picture that I have in the
hallway of the museum.
Vural: [00:40:44] Of the original structure. So, tell me, what is it about—are you interested in
history in general or—
Velardi: [00:40:52] Yes, yes.
Vural: [00:40:52] —specifically New York?
Velardi: [00:40:52] I am, yes. But I have an affection for the history of New York City, there’s
no question about it. I mean, it’s been my main home, aside from Boston that I mentioned to you
before [coughs].
Vural: [00:41:07] So, tell me, when you think about what you know about the Upper West Side
and its early days in the late nineteenth century, what about that history is intriguing to you, sort
of about the development of the West Side?
Velardi: [00:41:23] What about it that’s intriguing? I don’t know that I can define anything. I
don’t think—I hope you’re not going to be offended by this—I don’t think that the West Side has
any of the class that the East Side has. Perhaps West End Avenue has some eminence to it.
Maybe Riverside Drive [and some of Central Park West]. But there’s no equivalent of Fifth
Avenue, Madison Avenue, Park Avenue, Lexington Avenue [chuckles], the East River Drive [or
Sutten Place]. And even the avenues in between have a certain elegance that I don’t find here on
Columbus or on Amsterdam.

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Vural: [00:42:12] Architecturally?
Velardi: [00:42:12] Yes, yes, but even beyond architecturally as far as the wares are concerned.
I see so many—by the way, maybe you have also—so many stores come, they present elegant
clothes, for example, they don’t remain long at all. When I pass by them, I practically never see
anybody in these stores. One would think that the rich clientele of Central Park West might come
and purchase in these places, but I don’t see them and therefore I’m not surprised when they go
out of business after a year or two years, whatever. It’s very brief. Now, maybe a year is too
brief. But they don’t stay around. [A retired manager of a nearby market once told me that he
thought some of the stores were “money launderers.”
Vural: [00:43:06] What do you remember as kind of the nadir of the neighborhood?
Velardi: [00:43:07] The—?
Vural: [00:43:08] The nadir, like the low point.
Velardi: [00:43:11] I pronounce that word na-dear.
Vural: [00:43:13] Na-dear. Okay.
Velardi: [00:43:15] [Chuckles] I’ve said this before, related to the drug epidemic, there were a
lot of robberies, there’s no question about that. I myself was never held up but I know of people
who were. I told you about the break-ins. Well, basically that was one of the phenomena of the
times and it was related to drugs.
Vural: [00:43:o] In the sixties and seventies—
Velardi: [00:43:52] Yes, in—yes.

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Vural: [00:43:53] —into the eighties.
Velardi: [00:43:55] And I think a little bit into the eighties, too, yes. [I think that the appearance
of methadone reduced the drug problem.]
Vural: [00:43:58] And is there a time that you think of—and perhaps it’s now—as the sort of
high point of the neighborhood?
Velardi: [00:44:08] The high point of the neighborhood—I don’t think I can identify anything.
No. There were some stores that I think embody a high point. Zabar is one, for example. And
Citarella for that matter. And Fairway, I would include. But other than that, right now nothing
comes to mind. I miss some of the theaters that used to be around. I don’t know if you remember
any of them. Do you remember the Trans-Lux? Does that mean anything to you?
Vural: [00:44:56] I don’t. Tell me about that. Where was that?
Velardi: [00:44:59] It was between Seventy-second and Seventy-third [Streets] on the west side
of Broadway. I think there’s a bank there now. [The Embassy theater was at Seventy-second
Street and Broadway and Trans-Lux was at Eighty-fifth Street and Madison Avenue.]
Vural: [00:45:07] On which street?
Velardi: [00:45:09] I’m sorry. Broadway. Broadway.
Vural: [00:45:10] Broadway.
Velardi: [00:45:10] Broadway. And in fact, there was a movie theater in the next block, here on
Columbus, between Seventy-fifth and Seventy-sixth. Something’s going on in that location. It
was a small theater—with a balcony, however. The theaters were far more plentiful, there’s no

30

Velardi – Session 1 of 1

question about it, throughout the entire city, not just here, and I do miss them. The one I go to
most is Lincoln Square, Sixty-eighth Street, and occasionally Eighty-fourth Street. The Beacon,
of course, used to be a movie theater first. You know that, right?
Vural: [00:45:46] Ah-hum.
Velardi: [00:45:47] Yes. And now it’s anything but that. They have a lot of shows there, yes.
Expensive.
[00:45:57] The Trans-Lux I mentioned. There was another theater, if I remember correctly,
between Seventy-ninth and Eightieth [Streets] on the east side of Broadway. Yes, there was a
theater there. I don’t remember the name of it, though.
Vural: [00:46:10] Did you ever go to the Museum Café?
Velardi: [00:46:14] Yes. It’s been a long time, though, since I’ve been there. Yes.
Vural: [00:46:18] Yes. How do you remember it?
Velardi: [00:46:21] Yes, it was fine. It was enjoyable, no question about it.
Vural: [00:46:25] Because that’s thought of as having been important in kind of a change in the
neighborhood, and people have told me that before that there were a lot of empty spaces and a lot
of spaces that sold medical supplies and that the restaurant was kind of a big deal when it opened
in the late seventies. Do you remember it that way?
Velardi: [00:46:52] Confidentially, I don’t, no. No.
Vural: [00:46:59] Do you remember a time that it felt like the street was sort of not vibrant, that
there wasn’t a lot going on in terms of retail spaces and restaurants and kind of life on the street?

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Velardi: [00:47:15] Well, as I said before, there used to be more restaurants, there’s no question
about it. There used to be more grocery stores, supermarkets, the Associated, I said that. So,
change has occurred. I miss a lot of places. To repeat: the movie houses, I miss them. The
restaurants also are not as abundant as they were in the past. That’s about it, I think.
Vural: [00:47:50] Did you go into Central Park, and when you first came in the neighborhood
was Central Park important to you?
Velardi: [00:47:53] Yes, occasionally, yes.
Vural: [00:47:57] How do you remember it?
Velardi: [00:47:58] I have photographs, I think, of the old Central Park when people went skiing
there—skating there—I’m sorry, skating, not skiing [chuckles]. And, of course, that’s a thing of
the past now. I don’t know that anybody goes skating in Central Park anymore. Are any of the
lakes, do they freeze over anymore? I don’t think so.
Vural: [00:48:21] Well, there are—there’s a skating rink at the southern end of the—
Velardi: [00:48:24] There is?
Vural: [00:48:25] Wollman Rink, which is at the south end of the park, and there’s Lasker at the
northern end of the park.
Velardi: [00:48:30] Oh, right. Oh, I see, okay. No, I’m not that much familiar with them. I
recognize what you’re saying, though.
Vural: [00:48:36] Yes.
Velardi: [00:48:38] But there used—

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Vural: [00:48:39] At either end of the park.
Velardi: [00:48:40] —there used to be skating going on here off Seventy-second, but that’s long
gone, though.
Vural: [00:48:46] Was there a time that you didn’t go into the park because it felt unsafe?
Velardi: [00:48:52] Not for me. I’ve warned many of my lady friends not to go through the park,
but no, it didn’t really bother me that much. But I don’t walk through the park that much at all. I
take a crosstown bus if anything and that’s it, that’s my exposure to Central Park [chuckles]—on
a bus.
Vural: [00:49:15] Yes. And was that true when you were a young man and first moved to the
neighborhood as well?
Velardi: [00:49:21] Yes, basically, yes.
Vural: [00:49:24] Yes, it wasn’t where you hung out?
Velardi: [00:49:25] No. Right.
Vural: [00:49:26] Okay. And when did you retire from social work?
Velardi: [00:49:30] That was ’98. Yes. As I said before, we used to meet in World Trade Center
Number One. I wonder if I would have been in that center if I was still on the job—fifty-sixth
floor. That was the New York State Department of Education Office, if I remember correctly.
And one of the women from that office was killed on 9/11. Michele Coyle-Eulau was her name.
Vural: [00:50:07] I’m sorry.

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Velardi: [00:50:08] So, that, I escaped.
Vural: [00:50:16] And did your work bring you to lots of parts of the city? Did you feel like you
knew New York really well in part because of your work?
Velardi: [00:50:25] Yes, but not all of New York. I mean, it was limited, the territory. I started
out, believe it or not, in the Dyckman [Street] area. That’s where Dyckman Center was. You
know that area, right?
Vural: [00:50:41] Yes, uptown.
Velardi: [00:50:42] Of course. Yes, way up—northern end of Manhattan. Then when I got my
master’s degree I volunteered to work at St. Nicholas [Center], 125th [Street] between Lenox
[Avenue] and Fifth [Avenue], and I was there for thirteen years. So, yes, ’69 to— Then it was
downtown. I think the address is—. Did I give you one of those cards? I think I did, but it’s not
here.
Vural: [00:51:15] I think I put it here.
Velardi: [00:51:16] Where is it? [Looking at business card] 80 Lafayette [Street]. Different
atmosphere entirely. This is the court atmosphere. The court, family court, was one block south
of us and the other courts were also there. It was a different population completely. And there
were so many opportunities there—among them Little Italy [chuckles] on Mulberry Street. So I
was back home, so to speak [chuckles].
[00:51:54] Yes, that’s it. And believe it or not, for some reason the city had to vacate 80
Lafayette. Yes, I’m sort of mixing things up here. 80 Lafayette—no, the very last place we
worked was 119 West Thirty-first Street, which was a New York State building, and of course

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that too was a completely different environment. [Chuckles] We were near Macy’s and all of the
other—Saks-Thirty-fourth Street was still around and Gimbels, I think, was still around, too.
Yes. [Chuckles] So, it was a different life altogether.
Vural: [00:52:43] Do you remember The Endicott?
Velardi: [00:52:44] The Endicott? That name sounds familiar.
Vural: [00:52:44] It was an SRO [single room occupancy].
Velardi: [00:52:46] Sure.
Vural: [00:52:48] It was an SRO between Eighty-first and Eighty-second [Streets] on the west
side of Columbus. The building is the whole block.
Velardi: [00:52:59] It’s still there, right, isn’t it?
Vural: [00:53:00] Now it’s an apartment building. It was converted in the late seventies—
Velardi: [00:53:02] Oh. Oh, okay.
Vural: [00:53:03] —early eighties. It’s remembered as a very troubled SRO.
Velardi: [00:53:09] That sounds familiar. Yes, yes, of course. Because it was drugs, right? Yes,
yes.
Vural: [00:53:18] Do you remember if you avoided parts of the neighborhood during those
years?
Velardi: [00:53:26] No, I can’t say that I do, no. No. A lot of the memory is gone, by the way. I
don’t have to tell you that, do I?

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Vural: [00:53:36] [Laughs] A lot is not gone. You’re good.
Velardi: [00:53:43] No, I found later on that I’ve confused so many dates and so many places.
This is a phenomenon of the last couple of years, believe it or not.
Vural: [00:53:55] Yes, I do.
Velardi: [00:53:56] You know?
Vural: [00:53:56] Yes.
Velardi: [00:53:57] It doesn’t go that far back. It’s just part of the “Golden Years.”
Vural: [00:54:02] Yes, I know. Do you remember, when you think about it, like when I raise it
for you, what your thoughts were when buildings like The Endicott, when SROs, which the
neighborhood had many of, were converting and becoming apartments and co-ops and that kind
of housing for low-income people was going away?
Velardi: [00:54:28] Well, I remember that. Yes, I remember. I do remember that, yes.
Vural: [00:54:31] Do you remember what you thought about that?
Velardi: [00:54:34] I was happy to hear [chuckles] that that was occurring. It meant fewer drug
addicts around and drug dealers, etcetera, etcetera. Yes, it improved the status of the
neighborhood, there’s no question about it. And I don’t know that there was any significant
connection between the two robberies in here, in my apartment, that I mentioned to you, and
what was going on out there. Maybe there was. No, it was not that huge an event, to tell you the
truth, because I’d never been held up outside in any way. There was never any kind of a drug

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Velardi – Session 1 of 1

involvement out there. And I don’t know that the people who broke into here were drug addicts
and they may not have been.
Vural: [00:55:34] So, you didn’t feel particularly threatened outside.
Velardi: [00:55:36] Say it again.
Vural: [00:55:37] You didn’t feel particularly threatened.
Velardi: [00:55:39] No, not really, no.
Vural: [00:55:41] Good.
Velardi: [00:55:42] This is not to say that I would stay out all night [chuckles]. I tried to get
home before eleven o’clock. Yes, and so did most of my friends. Yes, nobody stayed out till
midnight and later.
Vural: [00:55:57] And why was that?
Velardi: [00:55:59] Because of what we’d read in the newspapers, basically, and what we’d hear
on the radio and on TV.
Vural: [00:56:09] Someone told me that their memory was that in the early seventies at night
you wouldn’t walk on the sidewalk, you would actually walk on the street. Do you remember
that? Does that sound right to you? No?
Velardi: [00:56:25] Well, define “night” [chuckles].
Vural: [00:56:28] In the dark, when it was dark out.

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Velardi: [00:56:34] [Yes, today I do remember hearing about walking in the street, but I never
did that.]
Vural: [00:56:37] It’s one of the things I think is really interesting about this kind of
interviewing is that people’s experiences are so specific and particular. Do you remember any
particular people from the neighborhood who were kind of characters? Like there was a barber
for a long time, named Frank, who had a tiny barber’s shop on Columbus in the seventies
[referring to the numbered streets]. He was in a couple of different locations and he had a
barber’s shop for fifty years. Did you know him or people like that who were sort of fixtures in
the neighborhood?
Velardi: [00:57:19] Nothing comes to mind. No one comes to mind. I haven’t been to a barber
in thirty years. [Whispers] I cut my own hair [chuckles]. [Previously, my barber was here on
Columbus Avenue.]
Vural: [00:57:36] You would have known him from the sixties. It would have been from many,
many years ago [chuckles].
Velardi: [00:57:39] Oh. Significant persons—not really. Not me, no.
Vural: [00:57:52] Okay.
Velardi: [00:57:53] I’m more of a solitary individual. The books, the books, see the books? See
the books in the study there? [Chuckles]
Vural: [00:58:01] I see you have a few.
Velardi: [00:58:02] That’s where my life is.

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Vural: [00:58:03] Is in books.
Velardi: [00:58:04] In books and in CDs and in LPs. They’re all over here. Well, you can see all
the DVDs there, right? [Chuckles]
Vural: [00:58:11] Yes, movies and music.
Velardi: [00:58:14] And here all of the VHS tapes, right?
Vural: [00:58:18] Great.
Velardi: [00:58:19] Etcetera. And all the entire hallway’s filled with that.
Vural: [00:58:23] What kind of books do you like to read?
Velardi: [00:58:25] Oh, primarily nonfiction. I don’t like fictional books. I prefer movies if I
need fiction. But history books, psychology books. Philosophy was my major, as I told you. And
yes, that’s what most of those books are. They’re philosophy, psychology, history, biographies,
guidebooks to everywhere [chuckles]. That’s it. You know, my life is in books primarily, and
in—well, CDs too. I have a huge collection. Do you know the name [Arturo] Toscanini?
Vural: [00:59:11] Yes, of course.
Velardi: [00:59:12] Yes?
Vural: [00:59:14] Yes.
Velardi: [00:59:16] I’ve purchased over the years every single performance of his on LPs, CD. I
even have recordings on 78s. And classical music is one of my fortés, no question about it.
That’s what you see there [chuckles].

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Vural: [00:59:38] A beautiful collection of music.
Velardi: [00:59:39] And there, etcetera, etcetera.
Vural: [00:59:41] That’s great.
Velardi: [00:59:42] And in the study, and in the hallway, and here [chuckles].
Vural: [00:59:44] That’s great.
Velardi: [00:59:45] These are all classicals, every one of them.
Vural: [00:59:48] Beautiful. And I think you’re still a commissioner of deeds.
Velardi: [00:59:52] That is correct.
Vural: [00:59:53] Can you tell me what it is to be a commissioner of deeds?
Velardi: [00:59:56] A commissioner—good deeds or bad deeds? [Chuckles] A very, very highclass notary public. I got that job when I became the director of special schools. I arrived at my
new office, the desk had legal papers that high [indicating with hands]
Vural: [01:00:21] That’s like eighteen inches.
Velardi: [01:00:22] Something like that—because there had been an absence between my taking
over and the departure of the previous director. So, I called our legal department. I asked them
how can I move these as fast as possible? And they said, “You can either become a notary or
become a commissioner of deeds.” So I said, “Tell me something about the commissioner of
deeds.” The answer came back: the test is coming up next month [laughs]. So, I took that test and
I got to be commissioner of deeds and I could sign off on the legal—most of them were legal

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papers for the court. And that’s it, that’s how I became a commissioner of deeds. I’m also a
CMM, though.
Vural: [01:01:10] What does that mean?
Velardi: [01:01:11] You’ve never heard of a CMM?
Vural: [01:01:13] I don’t think so. What is that?
Velardi: [01:01:16] A Certified Member of the Mafia.
Vural: [01:01:17] [Laughs] No you’re not.
Velardi: [01:01:25] [Laughs] It goes with the—it comes with this [laughs].
Vural: [01:01:29] It comes with your job, ha?
Velardi: [01:01:33] [Laughs] No. So, yes, I still—in fact I’ll show you [laughs]. I’ll show you
this [laughs]. I carry this with me at all times, the stamp. Well, the whistle is extra [laughs], but
my stamp as a commissioner of deeds, not as a CMM [laughs], I don’t have a stamp [laughs].
There is—commissioner of deeds [laughs, pulls commissioner’s stamp from his pocket and tests
it out]. Let me see if there’s ink in here. I haven’t put ink on this thing for a long time. Wait a
minute. No, no, it’s alright, it’s alright, I’ve got plenty of pads here [chuckles]. Come on. Okay.
Ooh, terrible [laughs]. Maybe a little bit flatter.
Vural: [01:01:28] There we go.
Velardi: [01:01:29] Yes. I think I need ink [laughs].

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Vural: [01:01:30] A little bit. Okay, but it’s a way of certifying that a document is what it says it
is.
Velardi: [01:01:35] Yes, yes, exactly, yes. Yes, no big deal. Anything that a notary can do I can
do and anything that I can do a notary can do, practically, yes. I’ve even forgotten the
differences, if any exist, between the two types of position. But I always carry this with me. And
I have notarized for a number of people in the building and in some businesses. In the
supermarket, the Pioneer, for example, I’ve done it for Steve there and somebody who no longer
works there, Wally. Obviously, I’m not as active as I used to be with this.
Vural: [01:03:20] Sure, because—right.
Velardi: [01:03:21] No, no, no. This was work-connected.
Vural: [01:03:25] And how did you like working for the City?
Velardi: [01:03:27] Well, it was challenging. Sometimes they hired people without closely
examining their educational background. That was a big problem. Yes, there were people who
didn’t belong in the jobs that they held. In fact, I had an incident once. Someone was transferred
to the area that I took care of, the special schools, and to me he couldn’t even properly spell
simple words. So, I went to the director of the center and I said, “I’d like to see his personnel
file.” And she said, “No, that’s restricted.” I said, “Why? I’m having so much trouble with him.”
But they wouldn’t let me see it. They said it was personal information and I didn’t have the
qualifications to examine it.
[01:04:32] Long story short, about six months later he left because he was discovered not
qualified for that job, and I could have told them that when I asked them to let me see his

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personnel folder. His work was being done by somebody he had fallen in love with Karen—no,
Carmen by name, who worked beside him. She was doing the work for him. Can you believe
that? How the hell did he get the job? That’s what I want to know [chuckles]. What kind of test
results were his?
Vural: [01:05:06] Were you glad to be in public service, though? Was that important to you?
Velardi: [01:05:12] Yes, I did enjoy that to an extent. It wasn’t my entire life [chuckles]. It got
so bad, though, after I was made director of special schools, that I was bringing case histories
home, to work on them here. And I got a lot of ridicule from some of my friends because after
work we would meet for dinner or a movie, etcetera, and they’d see me with the briefcase filled
with these case histories [chuckles]. So, it had its negative features, no question about it.
[01:05:53] When I retired, I was replaced by three persons. I was replaced with someone on my
own level—number one and two, they called them Sup 1s, Supervisor 1s. Three people replaced
me. I couldn’t believe that but that’s what happened [chuckles].
Vural: [01:06:14] And had you—[chuckles] well, that speaks so well for you, though.
Velardi: [01:06:17] Well, [chuckles], I guess. Maybe [chuckles].
Vural: [01:06:21] And had you been in the union before you were a supervisor?
Velardi: [01:06:23] Yes, I was in the union, sure.
Vural: [01:06:26] And given that your parents were dressmakers and in the union, had you
grown up kind of supporting unions? Was that something that was important to you?
Velardi: [01:06:34] No. No, no, it really wasn’t, no. I’ve never even thought about that, no.

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Vural: [01:06:41] No? And were you religious? Did you grow up—given that you went to
Catholic school did you—
Velardi: [01:06:47] Are you sitting down?
Vural: [01:06:50] Yes [chuckles].
Velardi: [01:06:51] At age sixteen, I decided that everything related to religion had no basis in
fact nor in history whatsoever. Many years later I saw an article in a newspaper regarding
Einstein, and the article reported that in one of his letters he mentioned that the Bible was quote
“childishness.” Have you ever [standing up to get something]—
Vural: [01:07:28] So, careful, you’re wired here.
Velardi: [01:07:30] No, no, I’m not going far. I’m just going to here.
[01:07:41] So, I gave up religion completely of any nature. I tried to examine some of the other
religions. I discovered, for example, that the religion of the Hindus is the oldest of the major
religions of the world. It goes back to at least 3,500 to 4,000 years ago. After that I think the
Chinese come next. The Chinese are around 1,600 B.C.E. Then very, very briefly, surprisingly,
the Egyptians, whose god was identified as Aton, A-T-O-N, came next. And then the Jewish
Bible comes. The Chinese god was Di, D-I slash Tien, T-I-E-N. Have you ever heard of that?
Vural: [01:08:50] No.
Velardi: [01:08:50] No.
Vural: [01:08:53] So, you’re showing me an article about Einstein.
Velardi: [01:08:57] Correct. You may have that article.

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Vural: [01:08:58] [Reading the heading and beginning of the article] “E=mc, two dollar signs,
an Einstein letter sale. Famous letter outlining Einstein’s contention that belief in God is a sign
of quote “weakness” will be on the auction block starting Monday with an opening bid set at $3
million.” So, when is this from?
Velardi: [01:09:15] This is at least four years old, five years old. It came much later than my
realization at age sixteen that I was reading not as he put it “childishness,” I was reading
mythology, I was reading folklore, legend, even fairy tales, okay. I was not reading history.
There were just too many contradictions for it to be history, from beginning to end. And that
exists today also. It’s unbelievable. Do you know—have you read that in India there are twenty
million slaves? Did you come across that article by any chance? It was in last year’s—one of The
Times.
Vural: [01:10:07] I don’t remember that specifically but I do know that there’s a tremendous
stratification and injustice.
Velardi: [01:10:16] Yes, it’s unbelievable the articles you read about what’s going on there. But
there are twenty million slaves still in 2019? I can’t—I find that incredible. And that’s somehow
contemporaneous with the existence of Hindu religion, with the Vedas, they’re called. Have you
ever heard of the Vedas?
Vural: [01:10:45] Yes.
Velardi: [01:10:46] The Rigveda is considered an equivalent of Genesis. [Chuckles] To me it’s
absolutely astounding that such a situation can exist.
Vural: [01:11:04] When did your parents die?

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Velardi: [01:11:05] Oh, my father was 84 and my mother was 95. She died in a nursing home
not far from where you live, on 87th and Riverside Drive. It was called Kateri then. I don’t know
what it’s called now [now called Riverside Premier Rehabilitation and Healing Center].
Vural: [01:11:28] I don’t know.
Velardi: [01:11:29] That would have been in 1995. Yes. He died six or seven years before that.
Yes.
Vural: [01:11:46] Did they have friends in the neighborhood?
Velardi: [01:11:52] Very few, very few. The superintendent of this building was a friend, Henry
Henneken by name, and that was before they eliminated a superintendent in this building
altogether. There are a couple of stores down at the basement where the superintendent’s fiveroom apartment used to be. The superintendent now floats among about ten or twelve buildings.
We’re lucky if we see him [chuckles] when we have a problem.
[01:12:28] No, major relationships. I had a five-year affair with Ellen, 115 West Seventy-third
Street. She died about six, seven years ago, but we were together from 1970 to 1975. I wanted to
go further but she had no interest. She wanted to be an actress. She wanted to be a dancer. She
wanted to be a businesswoman. She never married. Neither did I for that matter, and she never
did. And she died, as I said, it must have been about seven or eight years ago, something like
that.
[01:13:25] I have Rosalie, I mentioned to you before. I see her every Friday. And we’re going to
get together on Saturday because it’s Linda’s birthday on Saturday. Please try to remember that
[chuckles].

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Vural: [01:13:37] And does Rosalie live in the neighborhood?
Velardi: [01:13:38] Rosalie lives in Canarsie. She used to live on Seventy-sixth Street, 55 West
[Seventy-sixth Street]. She lives in Canarsie now. She had a daughter. That daughter lives in Los
Angeles and has three children. Rosalie visits there two or three times a year.
Vural: [01:14:01] Canarsie’s a long way from here. How do you—
Velardi: [01:14:02] I’m sorry?
Vural: [01:14:04] Canarsie is a long way from here.
Velardi: [01:14:05] You’re absolutely right about that. And with the disappearance of the
Number L train it takes forever to get from there to here, an hour and a half minimum. It’s
[chuckles] incredible.
Vural: [01:14:22] Yes, yes. Great to have such a longtime friend, though.
Velardi: [01:14:26] I’m sorry?
Vural: [01:14:27] It’s great to have such a longtime friend, though.
Velardi: [01:14:29] Yes, it is, yes.
Vural: [01:14:34] Is there anything you want to share with me, your reflections on the
neighborhood and how it’s changed and what it means to you that you’ve lived here for sixty
years?
Velardi: [01:14:45] Something like that, even though it’s not been continuous. As I said before,
I would—if I go out later on and find out that I won the Mega, tomorrow [chuckles] I’m going to

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Velardi – Session 1 of 1

move to the East Side as quickly as I can. I will go back to the Fifties [referring to the numbered
streets]. Maybe not First, Second Avenue, maybe a little bit east of that. I’m not going to look for
luxury housing—I’m not interested in that—but I will look for, perhaps, another brownstone. If I
can, I’ll buy it [chuckles] and occupy the ground floor duplex apartment. That’s what we had on
Fifty-first: four rooms on the ground floor, six rooms above. I’d buy something like that and
move in.
Vural: [01:15:35] Four rooms on the ground floor.
Velardi: [01:15:36] Yes.
Vural: [01:15:37] Yes.
Velardi: [01:15:38] But no, this does not hold that attraction for me.
Vural: [01:15:43] Even though you’ve been here so long.
Velardi: [01:15:44] Even though I’ve been here this long. I don’t think that I’m going to miss
anything if I have Lexington nearby, if Madison is nearby, if Third Avenue is nearby. I’m not
going to miss anything on Columbus or Amsterdam.
Vural: [01:16:01] Yes, you don’t feel—
Velardi: [01:16:02] Maybe Broadway a little bit, okay, but I don’t know, it may be the fact that I
grew up there and so much of that is part of my early childhood and my younger years. I have a
relationship that can’t go away from the East Side. Does that make any sense?
Vural: [01:16:26] They’re your feelings. They’re absolutely fine, yes. So, you have no great
affection or nostalgia for this neighborhood?

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Velardi: [01:16:35] Mm?
Vural: [01:16:36] So, you have no great affection or nostalgia for this neighborhood?
Velardi: [01:16:39] Not really, no. To be honest, no. The seven-room apartment has been great,
but when we were living on the East Side, we had a six-room apartment on the second floor. The
duplex apartment that first existed when we bought the building was gone. They had severed the
stairs in between the two apartments. There was an NBC producer living in the ground floor
apartment, Jim Pozzi, and we moved into the second floor. The building had a stoop. So there
were really only five rooms on the second floor. Later, when a vacancy occurred, we moved up
one flight to rent out the five-room apartment for $125 a month [chuckles], which was double
what the other apartments were costing. But that’s the reason why we had moved up. It was
either $125 or even $150, I’ve forgotten. It was a crazy high rent, but there was somebody
willing to pay it [chuckles].
[01:18:00] I don’t know. I’ve known people in this neighborhood. As I mentioned before, Eileen
and I were together for five years. I met her at work, by the way. And she had roommates and
one I’m still in touch with. That is Magdalena. She’s on Twenty-eighth Street on the East Side.
We go out occasionally. She, yes, she used to live there with Eileen but she has no great desire to
return to this neighborhood. She was a ballet dancer. Her hips gave out. She had to have the hips
replaced. But she has been a painter. She is an excellent painter. In fact, I’ll show you one of her
paintings. She made what you see on the—not the painting, the doll there on the lampshade.
Vural: [01:18:58] Oh, wow, that’s beautiful.
Velardi: [01:18:59] And that one over there also is hers, the lampshade, on the lampshade.

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Vural: [01:19:04] Yes, I see. It’s a lovely dog.
Velardi: [01:19:06] But I’ll show you the actual paintings. They’re back there somewhere.
Vural: [01:19:12] Okay.
Velardi: [01:19:13] Other than the two of them—well, I mentioned Rosalie before, she used to
live on Seventy-sixth and now is in Canarsie, but she’s been in Canarsie for the last thirty years.
We also met at work. But anybody else? No, nobody comes to mind. There used to be people in
this building but they’ve all moved for one reason or another.
Vural: [01:19:43] So, before we say goodbye is there anything you want to share with me about
your thoughts on the neighborhood or your experience here or anything else you want to share?
Velardi: [01:19:56] I know what you’re after. There’s nothing salient that comes to mind. I miss
a lot of the restaurants that used to be around. As we said before, I miss a lot of the theaters, the
movie theaters that used to be around.
Vural: [01:20:25] Do you remember a coffeeshop called The Cherry?
Velardi: [01:20:26] The Cherry?
Vural: [01:20:27] Yes. It was called The Cherry Coffeeshop.
Velardi: [01:20:28] Where was it?
Vural: [01:20:29] It was around here. It was in the Seventies. I might have the name wrong, but
I think it was called The Cherry Diner or something like that.

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Velardi: [01:20:38] There’s a vague recollection of something Cherry, but I don’t know if we’re
talking about the same one, though.
Vural: [01:20:45] Are there restaurants that you remember? You were saying the Europa, you
thought. Are there others that you remember by name?
Velardi: [01:20:53] Well, the Café Europa alright. I mentioned that one. Oh, my memory’s not
what it should be.
Vural: [01:21:07] Your memory’s fine. You just liked the feel of the street at that time.
Velardi: [01:21:13] The favorite—one favorite restaurant used to be the Café des Artistes, but
it’s now known as The Leopard des Artistes because the original Leopard on the East Side
bought it. That’s on Sixty-seventh, as you probably know, near Central Park West. The ones that
are gone, the names are gone, also.
Vural: [01:21:41] Okay. Don’t feel any pressure. If there’s something you’d like to share before
we say goodbye, that’s fine, and if not, that’s also fine.
Velardi: [01:21:51] Nothing that I haven’t said before. If I could tomorrow move back to the
East Side, I would. I don’t know that I can’t find on the East Side anything that is available here,
that’s unique to this area.
Vural: [01:22:19] Alright, well, then let’s—
Velardi: [01:22:20] The restaurants on the East Side, I’ve been to many of them and they’re just
as splendid as those that I find here. This is not for one minute—I’m not saying that these
restaurants are inferior here. Some of them are excellent. The Lincoln Square Steakhouse, have
you been there?

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Vural: [01:22:37] No, I have not.
Velardi: [01:22:38] East Seventieth Street? No? The one next door, though, is the Café
Luxembourg. The portions are tiny, the cost is expensive as hell [chuckles]. We went there once
and not going to go back there again. But there are some excellent restaurants. There’s the
French bistro, Bistro Cassis, Box in the Woods, La Boite en Bois [chuckles]. It’s on Sixty-eighth
Street just a little bit off of Columbus. Do you know that one? You go downstairs a few steps.
Vural: [01:23:25] Oh, I have not been to that.
Velardi: [01:23:26] No?
Vural: [01:23:26] You like that one?
Velardi: [01:23:27] Oh, yes.
Vural: [01:23:28] Okay.
Velardi: [01:23:29] Sixty-eighth Street, the northeast corner. It’s right there. You go down a few
steps and you’re in a French bistro.
Vural: [01:23:37] I’ll check it out.
Velardi: [01:23:38] Yes. Across the street, on the corner, is Il Violino.
Vural: [01:23:44] Yes, I’ve been there.
Velardi: [01:23:45] You’ve been there?
Vural: [01:23:46] Yes.

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Velardi: [01:23:46] Okay. Then between Seventieth and Seventy-first on Columbus, on the east
side, you have Bistro Cassis and Café Pomodoro.
Vural: [01:23:58] Yes.
Velardi: [01:23:59] You’ve been there, too?
Vural: [01:23:59] Yes, I have.
Velardi: [01:24:00] Alright, okay. On Seventy-first, there’s Pasha, the Turkish restaurant.
Across the street there’s Santa Fe for a bit of the west and a bit of Mexico, also [chuckles].
Vural: [01:24:15] Yes.
Velardi: [01:24:16] You know that one?
Vural: [01:24:17] Yes, I do.
Velardi: [01:24:18] So, there are good restaurants, there’s no question about it. I’m not unhappy
with some of the—most of the restaurants are fine.
Vural: [01:24:29] You’re really talking about your emotional attachment.
Velardi: [01:24:32] Sort of, yes. Yes. No, as I’ve mentioned before, going out to the movies
every Friday, practically, and then dinner afterwards has been a routine for many, many years
now. Yes, other events occur on the weekend itself. Sundays, for example. Saturday, for
example, there’s going to be a birthday celebration held at the Hollywood Diner, which is on
Sixteenth Street and Sixth Avenue [chuckles].
Vural: [01:25:13] Nice.

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Velardi: [01:25:14] That’ll be the seventieth birthday of Linda by name. So, we’re going to go
there, etcetera, etcetera.
Vural: [01:25:22] Yes, okay.
Velardi: [01:25:23] I don’t know that I have that much of significance to offer you.
Vural: [01:25:25] No, it’s lovely to talk with you. So, I’m going to say thank you.
Velardi: [01:25:31] Not at all. Well, before you go, do you want to see some of the West Side
[referring to photos on the walls in the apartment], what it looked like?
Vural: [01:25:36] I’d love to. So, I’m going to turn this off. I’m just going to say thanks and I’m
going to turn this off.
[END OF INTERVIEW]